To political prisoners: I II III
To world peace activists: I II III
To Christians in Britain and America: I II III
To culturists: I II III
To victims in Afghanistan: I II III
I II III
Saturday, 27 March 2010
Monday, 22 March 2010
UAF thug Weyman Bennett finally arrested for violent crimes
During recent protests in Bolton, from both the English Defence League pests and the Unite Against 'Fascism' thugs, leader Weyman Bennett was finally arrested on conspiracy to commit violent crimes.
It's been a long time coming. The UAF like to claim they're peaceful protestors, but from images from the BBC and other news sources, we clearly see that they're not so peaceful (But of course, we knew this anyway).
Obviously, Weyman Bennett isn't all too pleased.
I quote:
"Officers came up to me as soon as I arrived and said they would arrest me. They are hostile to anti-racists and there needs to be an investigation.
"Police neutrality needs to be questioned."
I, for one, struggle to believe that Police officers (Who are - ironically - subject to fascist tendencies of the establishment, whereby they cannot join the BNP) could possibly be against anti-racism (or indeed, supposed anti-racism, given the UAF's love for white discrimination and oppression).
It must be said, however, that the EDL are just as bad. There is no need for these kind of violent rallies. What the EDL stand for is good, but their means of protesting is far from acceptable, and they are not at all associated with the British National Party.
I'm taking great pleasure in the thought that the three leaders (Clegg, Brown and Cameron) must be kicking themselves, given their little funded fascist pet Bennett, is being portrayed to the public as the fascist, violent thug he really is.
I quote Winston Churchill himself, when I say that 'The anti-fascists of the future, will be the real fascists'. We're living in that horrific future.
Friday, 19 March 2010
Burka Debate - Transcription
Apologies for spelling mistakes/ poor grammar. It was written to reflect precisely how people were saying things.
This is a debate held earlier in the year, with about 100 or so students - needless to say, 99% of them were against my 'evil racist nazi opressive' views. I very much felt like Nick on Question Time, I'm sure!
It was good fun, however. I look forward to stirring up some controversy with small minded liberals, once more.
-----
Transcript of a Debate as to whether Burka’s should be banned.
Saqib: First debate back then should we ban the Burka or the Nikab now if you’re not sure what we’re talking about here is the traditional muslin muslim um(2) sort of female clothing which covers the front of the face but leaves a gap for the eyes thats the one we’re talking about we’re not talking about a scarf which leaves the face clear or and we’re not talking about total covering we’re talking about(1) face covering with a gap for the eyes. Yeah it is Nikab but it’s called Burka by alot of people which the Uk independence party sort of did on tele talking about a Nikab meaning a Burka so to avoid any confusion now we’re talking about complete face covering with a gap for the eyes should we ban that(1) Just to give you a little update on whats going on now in france its looking like they are going to ban for because public workers and in public places in certain places as well like schools and colleges um(1)they have had a a committee of mps report to say yeah it should be banned over here we’ve got the Uk independence party and several others join the debate and thats what we’re going to talk about today so i think a good starting point would be(2) the PRO ban why should we ban this article of clothing then jack and connor if you want to kick it of
| then |
Jack: | i consider| i have two main problems with the burka er(1) i see it as more of a face well i say face of the islamification of the west an er to me this restricts the culture and religious freedom freedom of the er indigenous people in these countries er this is short term diversity you’ll say we still have the indigenous acting there culture and the we should have racial foreignrers acting theres and in the long term this destroys diversity in our own country my other problem is i don’t consider it Islamic in the sense that it is not in the qu’ran and it was first introduced by the Taliban
Saqib: (3) Anything anyone would like to add to that?
Connor: Um(1) yeah actually its just drawing on jacks point the actual burka itself wasn’t origionally part of the muslim faith(1) and it was actually created before(1) the Islam faith was in existence really its been used for years origionally its purpose was to protect people when they were in sand storms that is the original purpose of the burka and also another purpose was to protect the women of child bearing age from raids where women we’re taken by um(1) some Islamic groups so those were the main purposes of the burka in the first instance and um(1) in Britain these days neither of those purposes would be applicable to(1) um muslim women
Saqib: Okay so your saying its not really needed for its functions okay right can we have an opposition function then
Adele: oh right its just you said racial foreigners but a very lot of people um who are british who have been here for gene | rations | |no no not converts|
Jack: |Converts|
Adele: British (1) who have been here for generations who’s choice it is to earn their keep who have been born here and not just come into the |country|
Jack: | if you look down the lines essentially they have|
Adele: | well | thats the same of everybody
Jack: | Well | yeah everybody has but im considering before the 1948 british nationality act im considering say third generation immigrants anyone that comes in with a different faith that is a faith that isn’t the norm in this country
Adele: | what do you mean the norm?|
Jack: | I mean um anglo sorry(2) |Christian|
Adele: Christian right
Jack: |Yeah|
Adele: so well I think the assumption that people who come from somewhere else come from that kind of place where they are bringing that in thats not________another thing is when you think its not qu’ranic um I mean in in past history obviously they would have worn you know the veil would have been worn actually in England aswell by women there was a real thing about veiling it doesn’t mean its not qu’ranic(1) um the interpretation the qu’ranic interpretation of full veiling it is in the qu’ran theres a line about when you address the wives of the prophets you must do so from behind a curtain now that’s taken by some people(1) as an assumption that they are made to wear it or what about freedom of choice what about the fact you can wear anything you want in this country
Jack: |my point|
Im saying in the short term that its diversity they have their freedom to practise there own culture I have nothing against that
Adele: |its not culture its religion|
Jack: well I consider culture apart of religion (1) okay but In the long term if we carry on at this rate I think we are going to see a lot of white flight of the indigenous men in these countries
Adele: you what sorry |white|
Jack: |white flight| its where immigration has increased increased increased its not stopped since 1948(1)
Adele: |yeah|
Jack: and if immigration continues you’ll see the indigenous population moving to countries like Australia
Saqib: |Right can i|
Can I just interrupt there(1) jack can you tell me the link then whats the link between immigration and the veil whats the
Jack: | it didn’t | originate in England did it it originated
Against the Ban : [muffled yells]
Saqib : RIGHT! Hang on hang on hold on a sec should we only have clothing clothing which originated on these shores then?
Adele: well we’d all be walking round like Knights then
Audience: [Laughter]
Adele: we might as well don a suit of armour what would
Saqib: |Right!| Hang on hang on bit of a question here should we only wear clothes that originated on these lands then jeans would be out of the question
Jack: I I I think in a perfect world yes but because we have immigration(1) because we have immigration and faith and culture as come with them man evolved a dress style and as I say like with white flight we see more people who don’t practise that faith moving to another country
Adele: | why would you move| why wouldn’t not embrace diversity
Jack: |it makes some uncomfortable|
Girl one: | can I just say|
2% of people in this country are muslim and less than a quarter of that 2% veil so I just don’t understand why it offends you so much(1) why does it offend so much to make YOU personally want to ban it I mean aren’t you going to upset the people who are doing it for their religion what grounds are you so offended by it
Connor : can I just say your statistic that 2% of muslims in Britain is actually incorrect there are 2 million muslims
Girl one: yeah that’s 2%
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: the population in Britain is 60 million 2 million is certainly not 2%
Girl one: |well that’s the stat I got|
Connor: well that’s wrong
Girl one: I’m not arguing with you
Saqib: Shall we stick to roughly 2-3% of the population is muslim whatever it is it’s a small amount of people we’re talking about lets make that quite |clear |
Jack: |I’d say nationally| that is quite a small number
Adele: |what what| upsets you about it whats do you think the danger is
Jack: okay consider an area like London yes it’s a small population nationally but its focused in specific areas because with immigration you generally go to poorer areas yeah so you have to consider these areas(1) so you can go to these places Nigel farage no sorry it wasn’t it was Lord pearson said it was sad not to see a white face in a lot of these places
Adele: |why is it a shame|
Louise: | why is it a shame| not to see a white face?
Adele: | are there not enough white people everywhere else|
Louise: do you not think that’s abit racist it’s a shame not to see a white face
Jack: |No no(1) im very disappointed to hear that word its not about racism
Louise: But you’ve just said its shame not to see a white face
Jack: | absolutely yes| as much as
Louise: |But that’s a racist comment| | it is|
Jack: | if you went to china(1)| if you went to china would you think it was a shame if everyone was white I bloody well would think so
Adele: |if I went to china| I wouldn’t be very upset by that I’d just think oh bloody hell whats going on here that’s quite interesting
Jack: | I think its treacherous by the government| transform the government
Louise: |no|
Saqib: alright can we hold for a second we’ve got hands up from
Michelle: |right just two points| im confused your making a distinction between the colour of faces and saying its not a racial comment which is just clearly illogical and secondly your saying Christianity is okay but another isn’t I don’t see why you’ve approved Christianity but all of a sudden islam isn’t okay
Jack: |I’m not approving either|
Michelle: | well you said | Christianity it’s the norm and it’s a middle eastern religion
Jack: | like I said |
Michelle: |same as islam|
Jack: like I said culture involves religion and culture are found in different countries and in each country it differs now if you start changing parts of culture you’ll change the whole country
Michelle: |culture| isn’t a static thing that remains the |same culture is something| which is ongoing and changing
Jack: | no its not| it doesn’t progress but its changes and not all change is good
Saqib: Okay on that note lets take some questions from the back there im pointing at the back
Bethan: you keep mentioning indigenous people what do you mean by that
Jack: anglo saxon celtic norse
Adele: |so when| you gonna put a stop on it
Jack: stop on what
Adele: well like kind of with(1) you know theres many people coming from everywhere all over throughout history when are you going put a stop on it and say right now these people are indigenous
Jack: what do you mean a stop
Adele: |well your| going to have to put a stop because you know(1) people have come into England you know forever and so where are you going to put a stop on that and say now these people are indigenous and everyone that comes here after this time is not indigenous
Jack: |are you looking| thousands of years into the future
Adele: |no abso| no its an ongoing process
Louise: |well nobody is indigenous then|
Jack: | yes nobody is of pure race| but I think we are getting on a completely different matter here
Saqib: yeah a good point by jack um can we take a point over there
Audience girl: I think the issue is that that what would you include as indigenous my family aren’t British my family are Lithuanian and Romany
Jack: I’m majority stock I am anglo saxon celtic norse which makes me indigenous just like a Chinese person who is indigenous in you know in there own country in china
Saqib: Right we’re digressing slightly from the topic lets try to stick to the burka and the nikab please(1) yes?
Audience boy 1: um I was just wondering they say that the burka isn’t an indigenous piece of clothing for England but in the Christian faith veils were wore when they went to mass so that they were in a respectful dress for mass and if you like many churches today the older generations like to wear hats(1) so why shouldn’t we ban something that is also practised within the indigenous faith the of England why should we ban something purely because it isn’t from the church of England
Jack: |Well| do you see anyone preaching faith wearing veils today
Audience boy 1: |yeah| | yeah I do| nuns for example
Jack: yes
Audience boy 1: nuns wear veils my auntie went to a convent for twelve months to become a nun she decided things were going badly in the family and she came back and she still veils when she goes into church
Jack: no er well in public places id still agree that nuns shouldn’t have to wear well shouldn’t wear the veil at all
Adele: eyyy
Louise: | who | are you to say(1) who are you to sit there and tell people what they can and cannot wear
Audience: [laughter and clapping]
Saqib: Right calm down a bit there
Audience: [laughter continues]
Saqib: theres a question here should the state because it would be a law passed by the state(1) should the state be able to govern what we wear connor
Connor: um I don’t I think its beginning to happen I mean I saw an abysmal BBC interview if you’d let me finish sorry
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: I saw an abysmal BBC interview a woman was banned from going into tesco in her pjamas and you should of heard this woman she was absolutely livid even though she was going into tesco early in the morning at half past 10
Louise: | you compare| pjamas to a religious dress
Connor: | I’m making a point|
Saqib: it’s linked its linked about what clothing you wear louise so I think its fair enough
Connor: and also this affects all young people the hoodie this has been an um(1) unbelievably um significant all of our lives many people have been banned from going into shops wearing a hoodie and this has led to the negative portrayal of youth in the media as a hoodie in some respects because of the fact that muslim women are being seperated from the rest of the british community because of what there wearing negative portrayal in the media of the burka referring to muslim women is highly possible in the future I think that this is something which by banning the burka could possible
Saqib: so you think it will help unity will help cohesion because we’ll be wearing similar clothing to each other
Connor: yes
Saqib: Louise
Louise: aren’t you by banning the burka thought even causing more islamaphobia and increasing like like not accepting its like you don’t want to accept it its not apart of your culture
Girl two: |why not other religions too|
Jack: we’re talking about the Burka
Girl two: yeah but your only targeting islam there are many other religions what about the sikh turban
Connor: |remember| we’re talking about the burka it covers the face
Girl two: | its not just the burka| other religions have things that cover
Jack: |we we are talking about the burka| but in the sense of other religions I don’t think its right you should only show your eyes that’s my whole point
Adele: why why don’t you think its right what don’t you like about it
Jack: |Right let me show you|(2) in july 2005 the London bombing yassin omar he took on the burka twice once when he fled the scene of the crime and a day later fled in one into the midlands he er was a bomber er Awarna Muhammad abdul adez garzi tried to flee the red mosque complex in Islamabad where he helped [inaudible] which is an organisation in opposition to authority to topple the government
Adele: right right you’ve got two instances of hiding your identity by wearing a burka
Jack: | there are many more|
Adele: |yeah but you could | of just you could just worn a false moustash
Audience: [laughter]
Adele: you can’t I don’t think the burka banning females from wearing the burka is really gonna you know you’ve got two instances of where people have escaped by concealing their identity you could have worn you know a false beard or a you know anything you can disguise identity in many ways what im saying to you is you’ve got these to random situations of hiding identity if terms of the females that wear you know there been no crimes committed in this country by Burka wearing women
Saqib: I think that’s a really interesting point actually jack?
Connor: I’ve got an example of that(1) if I could just highlight heria shinuf’s case she was actually no sorry heria shintoof she was in John lennon airport and concealed inside her burka had a pen drive with 7,000 files for the brothers of the mukadeem including an explosives manual and instructions
Adele: |Right| |Right| well what I’ll say with that is that she didn’t need the burka to conceal that she could have put it somewhere far more ingenius
Audience: [laughter and clapping]
Connor: look my point is she is a muslim woman using the burka to her advantage
Adele: |no | shes not she could have concealed it anywhere
Connor: [inaudible]
Adele: |she could have concealed it anywhere|
Saqib: one person at time(1) connor(1) adele calm down a second
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: the first point that was important there how many actually burka wearing females are out there committing crimes then though we have an example im not sure its too many um not convinced on that at the moment have you got anything to reply to that(1) is it the burka wearing women that are the danger to this country at the moment?
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: if the flash drive was concealed in a pocket would we have to ban jeans?
Girl two: aren’t there far more many women who are concealing things and sneaking them into airports who are just not wearing burkas
Jack: no absolutely but what we’re saying here the burka is an aid
Girl two: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |we’re we’re talking| about on instance here and you’ve got a decent argument against it but you’ve got to consider other instances there are known jewellery thef thefts wearing burkas
Adele: | go on tell me then| who’s robbed jewels wearing a burka
Jack: | a Somali murder suspect in the uk| fled from the Israelly justice and a member of the taliban who fled from the forces in Afghanistan its not just one instance
Girl two: | that’s that’s exactly why|
Adele: |but you cant|
Saqib: |Right ok ok ok!| we’ve got a hand up here can we have a question
Audience boy 2: Theres known instances of people robbing places and um committing crimes wearing stockings on there heads are you going to ban stockings
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: how many people to you see walking round the er streets wearing stockings over their faces
Louise: |because its not a sign of religious or worship I don’t know how you can compare it
Jack: | if you saw someone| going down the street with a stocking on there head or a bag with swag written on it I would say to you yeah there a robber If I saw someone walking down the street wearing a burka I would say no there a muslim
Louise: [inaudible shouting]
Adele: |well well| whats the problem with it then.
Jack: |they can use that against us [inaudible]|
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Adele: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |if you just listen to| what im saying
Saqib: | Can! Can we| try not to have people all talking at once(1) wanna come back on that point then?
Audience boy 2: so your saying your comparing someone wearing a burka in its what it represents is the same as the cartoon stocking on the head and swag bag(2) is that what your saying everyone(1) well to that if you take that too its ultimate point
Jack: |yeah| |imagine| how a burglar might dress dark clothing um might have one of those er
Audience: |[laughter]|
Saqib: your laughing but generally at night burglars would wear dark clothing so they don’t stand out
Jack: and they generally cover their face you look them and think ok there something going on there but then you look at somebody wearing the burka and think ok that’s a muslim you have no idea that they perhaps have done something
Girl one: |what they perhaps have done something|
Adele: | you must walk round suspicious of everyone| hey whats that dog done
Saqib: | okay OKAY| lets take that young lady at the front there okay a question from the audience shh
Audience girl 2: don’t you feel like its your social responsibility to(1) increase equality in the world
Connor: | how can we| be equal when they are wearing clothing which distinguishes them from everybody else
Audience girl 2: |because its your job to treat them like human beings|
Louise: |Can I|
Connor: it should be should be a muslim womans responsibility yeah to try to contact through facial expression you know get involved with society a daily mail journalist
Louise: |yeah but its their choice whether to or not|
Audience girl 2: | you should accept them either way|
Connor: | a daily mail journalist| said it stopped me from seeing what went on to my left and to my right the material is hot and airless and I could no longer communicate with people
Louise: yeah I agree with that
Connor: | how can she be equal| if she cannot communicate like everybody else
Louise: | its freedom of choice| they want to be equal
Jack: |how can they want to be equal| if there changing themselves
Adele: |you mean equal| meaning everyones the same equality isn’t about people being the same its about people being allowed to be what they are they are equal but different theres nothing about us having to dress the same to be equal with celebrate our differences
Jack: | I I really| don’t think we should tell people how to dress
Adele: but you are doing!
Jack: | its about them covering their face|
Adele: |inaudible|
Saqib: | okay calm down again!|
Connor: | sorry can I just say I think| you’ve got a point lets just make everyone equal lets just let naturists who want to conceal everything nothing even go to school naked lets let them go on the bus naked everyone should be equal
Saqib: | Okay right| I’ve got a hand up at the back yes young lady
Bethan: right so If you say the burka poses problems with communications what can like the(1) side against the ban think can eleviate that if it causes these problems
Girl one: well because with communication obviously the burka allows you to communicate one a deeper a level because you have to listen to someone your forced to listen to them without the exteriors of appearance coming into it yer your forced to connect to someone on a deeper level because you can only listen to them
Adele: can I just say as well you imagine how many people walk around with their ipods on you know doing that kind of thing and their not communicating its your choice if you don’t want to if you want to be sort of quiet and kind of(1) its not preventing you from communicating if you have the choice and you want to be say for instance quite quiet or whatever that’s you choice isn’t it
Saqib: yep communications not a necessary thing
Adele: no you don’t have to communicate if you don’t want to
Saqib: okay young lady at the back I know you’ve had you hand up for ages you’ve been very patient
Audience girl one: a while ago you compared the hoodie to the burka however the hoodie has had quite a lot of instances of people actually doing violent acts whereas the burka its only the minority who have so I don’t see how that is comparable due to the like amount of people who have commited crime wearing a hoodie or have stole or hurt someone
Connor: |okay if you if you were to compare|
Jack: |how many people are wearing a hoodie in this room | and how many have committed crimes wearing them
Girl one: | well how many feel hoodie is a part of their religion|
Connor: one one question for you bethan you know you’ve got to think of it this way if you were to compare someone who wears a hoodie and conceals the back of their head and someone who wears the burka who conceals the back of their head and most of the face you know a burka is more concealing
Louise: so what(1) does it really matter I don’t see how you get so offended by it
Saqib: louise we’ll have to move on we’ve got quite a lot of people with there hands up now young amn
Audience boy 3: your saying that your afraid that people cant see their face is thatis that your point
Connor: im im(1) right the thing is you know expression you know you’ll be able to see my expression you’ll be able to see im angry im sad everything but with a burka on you wouldn’t be able to tell whether I was enthused whether I was talking you know
Girl one: | so what| you don’t need to express yourself through facial expressions
Connor: | right then lets have women| wearing the burka then expressing themselves via dance [inaudible]
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: | right one person at a time please!| you wanna come back on that one
Audience boy 3: so you trying to say we need to see facial expression so then should we ban beard and long hair?
Connor: | yeah yeah| the thing is you can see them smile cant you
Audience: laughter
Saqib: right hand in the middle please(2) sorry can we stop the mini conversations going on please
Audience girl 3: the people wearing burkas at the moment maybe for protection maybe for another reason but are you willing to make those people feel so uncomfortable so vunerable in our society
Connor: I think there are instances of people who are vunerable with the burka on I mean one of the main problems is there are some young muslim british girls who in their youth have been made to wear burkas imposed by religion I was imposed to go to church when I was young this is a similar instance and these young british muslim girls have suffered abuse ah ah ah at home cuts bruises everywhere and there teachers couldn’t even no this was going taking place because they have black cloth concealing their bodies they were being abused and they were being hurt and no-one knew about it
Jack: | I also|
I also think aswell that people who do wear the burka(1) whos to say they don’t feel vunerable perhaps that’s the reason that they wear it because it is out of choice it isn’t you know it isn’t a part of the qu’ran(1) it’s choice
Saqib: right we’re coming onto something important can you just keep your hand up for a second can we have a response to a symbol of oppression?
Louise: you said its oppressive it’s a symbol of oppression but isn’t it oppressive to tell women what they can and can’t wear?
Jack: | its not about | they can’t wear its about what they cover their face with that’s not clothes that’s not clothing!
Louise: |it is!|
Jack: |not in | western society!
Louise: | what do you mean not| in western society?
Adele: |ehhhh|
Jack: | they walk round with cloth| on their face that’s not clothes
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Adele: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: |RIGHT one at a time one at a time please!|
Louise: your just causing greater a division within society
Jack: | I think| there pretty good at causing divisions already
Louise: | No no!| your trying to cause a big divide I mean how are you going to police women wearing the burka oh its an on the spot fine
Jack: yeah
Adele: [inaudible]
Louise: I I don’t understand how you’ve got the nerve or ordacity to sit there and dictate what women can and can’t wear when it’s a sign of there religion its free choice
Jack: | I think|
Audience: [clapping and cheers]
Saqib: right a question from the front
Audience boy 4: you say its not clothing but I don’t think you know when you see little chavvy girls going into pier in their hot pants you know up the bum I feel that that’s clothing either so if your going to ban the burka you need to ban hot pants and little slaggy girls who are wearing nothing but covering the nipples
Audience: [laughter and chatter]
Saqib: im not sure about your your terminology there
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: when a girl is wearing barely nothing you can still see their facial expression
Audience: [laughter]
Audience boy 4: so would you rather see someone and know shes a slag or like
Saqib: | Emerit!|
Audience: [laughter]
Audience boy 4: or be able to like know someone’s at least respecting themselves even if other people are being all like tarted up they can still show how they feel through there eyes or like how they speak(1) you can see someones happy through there eyes if they smile or something but
Saqib: okay that’s a fair point thanks Emerit for a really good point er keep your hands up please will yer and I’ll get to you as soon as I can(1) President whittaker?
Audience: [one person claps and audience laughs]
Sam: er don’t you agree that abuse er related to the burka and wearing the burka are two different issues
Jack: er yes but we’re saying they interlap were saying that there is abuse and burkas can continue abuse
Sam: don’t you think that alcohol abuse would mean we should put a ban on alcohol then
Connor: | there are steps being taking to | stop alcohol abuse this would be a step to prevent abuse of the burka!
Sam: I think your abusing !civil rights
Saqib: okaay thanks for you comment there can we have a quick point there?
Audience girl 4: urm you were talking about how children can be abused in their homes and cover it with the burka can I point out for a start the burka only covers the face for starters it doesn’t actually cover the whole body(1) and a lot of teachers now actually have training to spot people who are being abused especially young children and if a young child
Connor: |they communicate through facial expression right|
Audience girl 4: yeah but you can still communicate through eyes kids can still talk to each other actually more teachers need to spot(1) children being abused when they speak to other children in the playground its not difficult to listen to other children
Saqib: okay okay that’s a good point
Girl one: | can I just say| if if your saying that these women are being oppressed and forced into wearing the burka by
Connor: | there not being forced|
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Girl one: by husbands and their dads or whatever what do yer think will happen if you ban the burka there gonna be imprisoned in their own homes there not gonna be allowed to go out if their weak enough to be forced to wear the burka by their fathers or whatever
Jack: |exactly they should be| able to leave there houses and they should be able be comfortable
Girl one: | there not going to be if you ban it|
Jack: | banning it them is the only way|
Adele: | are you gonna go round checking all there houses|
Girl one: | [inaudible]|
Saqib: okay okay thanks adele thanks jack common we’ve got a point here or question sorry
Audience girl 5: its just the the point about how(1) like one of your main points is that well children can be abused and its covered up by cloth children can be abused who just wear western dress and you don’t spot it the way to spot abuse is by talking to children and you can still talk to a child and form a relationship with a child regardless of what they wear
Connor: |okay hypothetically hypothetically|
Audience girl 5: |no NO! as person who works with young people my focus on a child isn’t on what your wearing oh your covered in cloth so I’m not going to talk to you
Connor: | okay so| can I ask you a question right you working with a quiet girl whos wearing a burka shes quiet she doesn’t want to talk about her problems shes got a massive cut down the side of her face which you cant see but she isn’t talking about her problem what do you do then?
Audience girl 5: orite with all due respect with somebody who forms a relationship with children and young people in that environment you build up trust you have to have trust
Connor: |yeah but there are still quiet people|
Audience girl 5: no! how are you going to have trust between a youth worker and the people if when they come in you go no sorry you can’t come in because your expressing yourself through your clothes get out(1) its ridiculous
Audience: [clapping]
Connor: I don’t think a quiet girl who been abused wearing the burka she wont be able to fully demonstrate her problem
Audience girl 5: |there are there are| quiet girls who are abused sexually and I cant see that but you still talk to them it the same like people who are abused commonly the places they are abused they do it in places which are cover up by normal clothes so I think that point is just completely invalid
Jack: well not really how many people just come straight up the day after and say my dad raped me how many people?
Audience girl 5: | sorry how is that how is that connected|
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Audience girl 5: | I think you missing the point|
Saqib: | hey okay guys okay I think we’re digressing again!| can we try and keep to the burka a question put your hand up please
Audience girl 6: I don’t understand the point about little kids wearing the burka works because you don’t veil till adolesance anyway(4)
Jack: this isn’t the main point the the
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: no its not its something that we’ve discussed it doesn’t mean that it is our main point our main point I have to say is the security risk and we’ve told you about the prisoners that have escaped the terrorist that have escaped
Girl one: | their weren’t any women|
Jack: | Yassi omar|
Adele: | that’s a man|
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: okay okay
Louise: |how many| muslims [inaudible]
Connor: | [inaudible] she wanted to blow up her and her [inaudible]|
Louise: |HOW many muslims [inaudible]|
Adele: |she could have put it | somewhere more exciting
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: Cummon eyy
Adele: | she didn’t need a burka|
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: | okay| thankyou question please from
This is a debate held earlier in the year, with about 100 or so students - needless to say, 99% of them were against my 'evil racist nazi opressive' views. I very much felt like Nick on Question Time, I'm sure!
It was good fun, however. I look forward to stirring up some controversy with small minded liberals, once more.
-----
Transcript of a Debate as to whether Burka’s should be banned.
Saqib: First debate back then should we ban the Burka or the Nikab now if you’re not sure what we’re talking about here is the traditional muslin muslim um(2) sort of female clothing which covers the front of the face but leaves a gap for the eyes thats the one we’re talking about we’re not talking about a scarf which leaves the face clear or and we’re not talking about total covering we’re talking about(1) face covering with a gap for the eyes. Yeah it is Nikab but it’s called Burka by alot of people which the Uk independence party sort of did on tele talking about a Nikab meaning a Burka so to avoid any confusion now we’re talking about complete face covering with a gap for the eyes should we ban that(1) Just to give you a little update on whats going on now in france its looking like they are going to ban for because public workers and in public places in certain places as well like schools and colleges um(1)they have had a a committee of mps report to say yeah it should be banned over here we’ve got the Uk independence party and several others join the debate and thats what we’re going to talk about today so i think a good starting point would be(2) the PRO ban why should we ban this article of clothing then jack and connor if you want to kick it of
| then |
Jack: | i consider| i have two main problems with the burka er(1) i see it as more of a face well i say face of the islamification of the west an er to me this restricts the culture and religious freedom freedom of the er indigenous people in these countries er this is short term diversity you’ll say we still have the indigenous acting there culture and the we should have racial foreignrers acting theres and in the long term this destroys diversity in our own country my other problem is i don’t consider it Islamic in the sense that it is not in the qu’ran and it was first introduced by the Taliban
Saqib: (3) Anything anyone would like to add to that?
Connor: Um(1) yeah actually its just drawing on jacks point the actual burka itself wasn’t origionally part of the muslim faith(1) and it was actually created before(1) the Islam faith was in existence really its been used for years origionally its purpose was to protect people when they were in sand storms that is the original purpose of the burka and also another purpose was to protect the women of child bearing age from raids where women we’re taken by um(1) some Islamic groups so those were the main purposes of the burka in the first instance and um(1) in Britain these days neither of those purposes would be applicable to(1) um muslim women
Saqib: Okay so your saying its not really needed for its functions okay right can we have an opposition function then
Adele: oh right its just you said racial foreigners but a very lot of people um who are british who have been here for gene | rations | |no no not converts|
Jack: |Converts|
Adele: British (1) who have been here for generations who’s choice it is to earn their keep who have been born here and not just come into the |country|
Jack: | if you look down the lines essentially they have|
Adele: | well | thats the same of everybody
Jack: | Well | yeah everybody has but im considering before the 1948 british nationality act im considering say third generation immigrants anyone that comes in with a different faith that is a faith that isn’t the norm in this country
Adele: | what do you mean the norm?|
Jack: | I mean um anglo sorry(2) |Christian|
Adele: Christian right
Jack: |Yeah|
Adele: so well I think the assumption that people who come from somewhere else come from that kind of place where they are bringing that in thats not________another thing is when you think its not qu’ranic um I mean in in past history obviously they would have worn you know the veil would have been worn actually in England aswell by women there was a real thing about veiling it doesn’t mean its not qu’ranic(1) um the interpretation the qu’ranic interpretation of full veiling it is in the qu’ran theres a line about when you address the wives of the prophets you must do so from behind a curtain now that’s taken by some people(1) as an assumption that they are made to wear it or what about freedom of choice what about the fact you can wear anything you want in this country
Jack: |my point|
Im saying in the short term that its diversity they have their freedom to practise there own culture I have nothing against that
Adele: |its not culture its religion|
Jack: well I consider culture apart of religion (1) okay but In the long term if we carry on at this rate I think we are going to see a lot of white flight of the indigenous men in these countries
Adele: you what sorry |white|
Jack: |white flight| its where immigration has increased increased increased its not stopped since 1948(1)
Adele: |yeah|
Jack: and if immigration continues you’ll see the indigenous population moving to countries like Australia
Saqib: |Right can i|
Can I just interrupt there(1) jack can you tell me the link then whats the link between immigration and the veil whats the
Jack: | it didn’t | originate in England did it it originated
Against the Ban : [muffled yells]
Saqib : RIGHT! Hang on hang on hold on a sec should we only have clothing clothing which originated on these shores then?
Adele: well we’d all be walking round like Knights then
Audience: [Laughter]
Adele: we might as well don a suit of armour what would
Saqib: |Right!| Hang on hang on bit of a question here should we only wear clothes that originated on these lands then jeans would be out of the question
Jack: I I I think in a perfect world yes but because we have immigration(1) because we have immigration and faith and culture as come with them man evolved a dress style and as I say like with white flight we see more people who don’t practise that faith moving to another country
Adele: | why would you move| why wouldn’t not embrace diversity
Jack: |it makes some uncomfortable|
Girl one: | can I just say|
2% of people in this country are muslim and less than a quarter of that 2% veil so I just don’t understand why it offends you so much(1) why does it offend so much to make YOU personally want to ban it I mean aren’t you going to upset the people who are doing it for their religion what grounds are you so offended by it
Connor : can I just say your statistic that 2% of muslims in Britain is actually incorrect there are 2 million muslims
Girl one: yeah that’s 2%
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: the population in Britain is 60 million 2 million is certainly not 2%
Girl one: |well that’s the stat I got|
Connor: well that’s wrong
Girl one: I’m not arguing with you
Saqib: Shall we stick to roughly 2-3% of the population is muslim whatever it is it’s a small amount of people we’re talking about lets make that quite |clear |
Jack: |I’d say nationally| that is quite a small number
Adele: |what what| upsets you about it whats do you think the danger is
Jack: okay consider an area like London yes it’s a small population nationally but its focused in specific areas because with immigration you generally go to poorer areas yeah so you have to consider these areas(1) so you can go to these places Nigel farage no sorry it wasn’t it was Lord pearson said it was sad not to see a white face in a lot of these places
Adele: |why is it a shame|
Louise: | why is it a shame| not to see a white face?
Adele: | are there not enough white people everywhere else|
Louise: do you not think that’s abit racist it’s a shame not to see a white face
Jack: |No no(1) im very disappointed to hear that word its not about racism
Louise: But you’ve just said its shame not to see a white face
Jack: | absolutely yes| as much as
Louise: |But that’s a racist comment| | it is|
Jack: | if you went to china(1)| if you went to china would you think it was a shame if everyone was white I bloody well would think so
Adele: |if I went to china| I wouldn’t be very upset by that I’d just think oh bloody hell whats going on here that’s quite interesting
Jack: | I think its treacherous by the government| transform the government
Louise: |no|
Saqib: alright can we hold for a second we’ve got hands up from
Michelle: |right just two points| im confused your making a distinction between the colour of faces and saying its not a racial comment which is just clearly illogical and secondly your saying Christianity is okay but another isn’t I don’t see why you’ve approved Christianity but all of a sudden islam isn’t okay
Jack: |I’m not approving either|
Michelle: | well you said | Christianity it’s the norm and it’s a middle eastern religion
Jack: | like I said |
Michelle: |same as islam|
Jack: like I said culture involves religion and culture are found in different countries and in each country it differs now if you start changing parts of culture you’ll change the whole country
Michelle: |culture| isn’t a static thing that remains the |same culture is something| which is ongoing and changing
Jack: | no its not| it doesn’t progress but its changes and not all change is good
Saqib: Okay on that note lets take some questions from the back there im pointing at the back
Bethan: you keep mentioning indigenous people what do you mean by that
Jack: anglo saxon celtic norse
Adele: |so when| you gonna put a stop on it
Jack: stop on what
Adele: well like kind of with(1) you know theres many people coming from everywhere all over throughout history when are you going put a stop on it and say right now these people are indigenous
Jack: what do you mean a stop
Adele: |well your| going to have to put a stop because you know(1) people have come into England you know forever and so where are you going to put a stop on that and say now these people are indigenous and everyone that comes here after this time is not indigenous
Jack: |are you looking| thousands of years into the future
Adele: |no abso| no its an ongoing process
Louise: |well nobody is indigenous then|
Jack: | yes nobody is of pure race| but I think we are getting on a completely different matter here
Saqib: yeah a good point by jack um can we take a point over there
Audience girl: I think the issue is that that what would you include as indigenous my family aren’t British my family are Lithuanian and Romany
Jack: I’m majority stock I am anglo saxon celtic norse which makes me indigenous just like a Chinese person who is indigenous in you know in there own country in china
Saqib: Right we’re digressing slightly from the topic lets try to stick to the burka and the nikab please(1) yes?
Audience boy 1: um I was just wondering they say that the burka isn’t an indigenous piece of clothing for England but in the Christian faith veils were wore when they went to mass so that they were in a respectful dress for mass and if you like many churches today the older generations like to wear hats(1) so why shouldn’t we ban something that is also practised within the indigenous faith the of England why should we ban something purely because it isn’t from the church of England
Jack: |Well| do you see anyone preaching faith wearing veils today
Audience boy 1: |yeah| | yeah I do| nuns for example
Jack: yes
Audience boy 1: nuns wear veils my auntie went to a convent for twelve months to become a nun she decided things were going badly in the family and she came back and she still veils when she goes into church
Jack: no er well in public places id still agree that nuns shouldn’t have to wear well shouldn’t wear the veil at all
Adele: eyyy
Louise: | who | are you to say(1) who are you to sit there and tell people what they can and cannot wear
Audience: [laughter and clapping]
Saqib: Right calm down a bit there
Audience: [laughter continues]
Saqib: theres a question here should the state because it would be a law passed by the state(1) should the state be able to govern what we wear connor
Connor: um I don’t I think its beginning to happen I mean I saw an abysmal BBC interview if you’d let me finish sorry
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: I saw an abysmal BBC interview a woman was banned from going into tesco in her pjamas and you should of heard this woman she was absolutely livid even though she was going into tesco early in the morning at half past 10
Louise: | you compare| pjamas to a religious dress
Connor: | I’m making a point|
Saqib: it’s linked its linked about what clothing you wear louise so I think its fair enough
Connor: and also this affects all young people the hoodie this has been an um(1) unbelievably um significant all of our lives many people have been banned from going into shops wearing a hoodie and this has led to the negative portrayal of youth in the media as a hoodie in some respects because of the fact that muslim women are being seperated from the rest of the british community because of what there wearing negative portrayal in the media of the burka referring to muslim women is highly possible in the future I think that this is something which by banning the burka could possible
Saqib: so you think it will help unity will help cohesion because we’ll be wearing similar clothing to each other
Connor: yes
Saqib: Louise
Louise: aren’t you by banning the burka thought even causing more islamaphobia and increasing like like not accepting its like you don’t want to accept it its not apart of your culture
Girl two: |why not other religions too|
Jack: we’re talking about the Burka
Girl two: yeah but your only targeting islam there are many other religions what about the sikh turban
Connor: |remember| we’re talking about the burka it covers the face
Girl two: | its not just the burka| other religions have things that cover
Jack: |we we are talking about the burka| but in the sense of other religions I don’t think its right you should only show your eyes that’s my whole point
Adele: why why don’t you think its right what don’t you like about it
Jack: |Right let me show you|(2) in july 2005 the London bombing yassin omar he took on the burka twice once when he fled the scene of the crime and a day later fled in one into the midlands he er was a bomber er Awarna Muhammad abdul adez garzi tried to flee the red mosque complex in Islamabad where he helped [inaudible] which is an organisation in opposition to authority to topple the government
Adele: right right you’ve got two instances of hiding your identity by wearing a burka
Jack: | there are many more|
Adele: |yeah but you could | of just you could just worn a false moustash
Audience: [laughter]
Adele: you can’t I don’t think the burka banning females from wearing the burka is really gonna you know you’ve got two instances of where people have escaped by concealing their identity you could have worn you know a false beard or a you know anything you can disguise identity in many ways what im saying to you is you’ve got these to random situations of hiding identity if terms of the females that wear you know there been no crimes committed in this country by Burka wearing women
Saqib: I think that’s a really interesting point actually jack?
Connor: I’ve got an example of that(1) if I could just highlight heria shinuf’s case she was actually no sorry heria shintoof she was in John lennon airport and concealed inside her burka had a pen drive with 7,000 files for the brothers of the mukadeem including an explosives manual and instructions
Adele: |Right| |Right| well what I’ll say with that is that she didn’t need the burka to conceal that she could have put it somewhere far more ingenius
Audience: [laughter and clapping]
Connor: look my point is she is a muslim woman using the burka to her advantage
Adele: |no | shes not she could have concealed it anywhere
Connor: [inaudible]
Adele: |she could have concealed it anywhere|
Saqib: one person at time(1) connor(1) adele calm down a second
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: the first point that was important there how many actually burka wearing females are out there committing crimes then though we have an example im not sure its too many um not convinced on that at the moment have you got anything to reply to that(1) is it the burka wearing women that are the danger to this country at the moment?
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: if the flash drive was concealed in a pocket would we have to ban jeans?
Girl two: aren’t there far more many women who are concealing things and sneaking them into airports who are just not wearing burkas
Jack: no absolutely but what we’re saying here the burka is an aid
Girl two: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |we’re we’re talking| about on instance here and you’ve got a decent argument against it but you’ve got to consider other instances there are known jewellery thef thefts wearing burkas
Adele: | go on tell me then| who’s robbed jewels wearing a burka
Jack: | a Somali murder suspect in the uk| fled from the Israelly justice and a member of the taliban who fled from the forces in Afghanistan its not just one instance
Girl two: | that’s that’s exactly why|
Adele: |but you cant|
Saqib: |Right ok ok ok!| we’ve got a hand up here can we have a question
Audience boy 2: Theres known instances of people robbing places and um committing crimes wearing stockings on there heads are you going to ban stockings
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: how many people to you see walking round the er streets wearing stockings over their faces
Louise: |because its not a sign of religious or worship I don’t know how you can compare it
Jack: | if you saw someone| going down the street with a stocking on there head or a bag with swag written on it I would say to you yeah there a robber If I saw someone walking down the street wearing a burka I would say no there a muslim
Louise: [inaudible shouting]
Adele: |well well| whats the problem with it then.
Jack: |they can use that against us [inaudible]|
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Adele: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |if you just listen to| what im saying
Saqib: | Can! Can we| try not to have people all talking at once(1) wanna come back on that point then?
Audience boy 2: so your saying your comparing someone wearing a burka in its what it represents is the same as the cartoon stocking on the head and swag bag(2) is that what your saying everyone(1) well to that if you take that too its ultimate point
Jack: |yeah| |imagine| how a burglar might dress dark clothing um might have one of those er
Audience: |[laughter]|
Saqib: your laughing but generally at night burglars would wear dark clothing so they don’t stand out
Jack: and they generally cover their face you look them and think ok there something going on there but then you look at somebody wearing the burka and think ok that’s a muslim you have no idea that they perhaps have done something
Girl one: |what they perhaps have done something|
Adele: | you must walk round suspicious of everyone| hey whats that dog done
Saqib: | okay OKAY| lets take that young lady at the front there okay a question from the audience shh
Audience girl 2: don’t you feel like its your social responsibility to(1) increase equality in the world
Connor: | how can we| be equal when they are wearing clothing which distinguishes them from everybody else
Audience girl 2: |because its your job to treat them like human beings|
Louise: |Can I|
Connor: it should be should be a muslim womans responsibility yeah to try to contact through facial expression you know get involved with society a daily mail journalist
Louise: |yeah but its their choice whether to or not|
Audience girl 2: | you should accept them either way|
Connor: | a daily mail journalist| said it stopped me from seeing what went on to my left and to my right the material is hot and airless and I could no longer communicate with people
Louise: yeah I agree with that
Connor: | how can she be equal| if she cannot communicate like everybody else
Louise: | its freedom of choice| they want to be equal
Jack: |how can they want to be equal| if there changing themselves
Adele: |you mean equal| meaning everyones the same equality isn’t about people being the same its about people being allowed to be what they are they are equal but different theres nothing about us having to dress the same to be equal with celebrate our differences
Jack: | I I really| don’t think we should tell people how to dress
Adele: but you are doing!
Jack: | its about them covering their face|
Adele: |inaudible|
Saqib: | okay calm down again!|
Connor: | sorry can I just say I think| you’ve got a point lets just make everyone equal lets just let naturists who want to conceal everything nothing even go to school naked lets let them go on the bus naked everyone should be equal
Saqib: | Okay right| I’ve got a hand up at the back yes young lady
Bethan: right so If you say the burka poses problems with communications what can like the(1) side against the ban think can eleviate that if it causes these problems
Girl one: well because with communication obviously the burka allows you to communicate one a deeper a level because you have to listen to someone your forced to listen to them without the exteriors of appearance coming into it yer your forced to connect to someone on a deeper level because you can only listen to them
Adele: can I just say as well you imagine how many people walk around with their ipods on you know doing that kind of thing and their not communicating its your choice if you don’t want to if you want to be sort of quiet and kind of(1) its not preventing you from communicating if you have the choice and you want to be say for instance quite quiet or whatever that’s you choice isn’t it
Saqib: yep communications not a necessary thing
Adele: no you don’t have to communicate if you don’t want to
Saqib: okay young lady at the back I know you’ve had you hand up for ages you’ve been very patient
Audience girl one: a while ago you compared the hoodie to the burka however the hoodie has had quite a lot of instances of people actually doing violent acts whereas the burka its only the minority who have so I don’t see how that is comparable due to the like amount of people who have commited crime wearing a hoodie or have stole or hurt someone
Connor: |okay if you if you were to compare|
Jack: |how many people are wearing a hoodie in this room | and how many have committed crimes wearing them
Girl one: | well how many feel hoodie is a part of their religion|
Connor: one one question for you bethan you know you’ve got to think of it this way if you were to compare someone who wears a hoodie and conceals the back of their head and someone who wears the burka who conceals the back of their head and most of the face you know a burka is more concealing
Louise: so what(1) does it really matter I don’t see how you get so offended by it
Saqib: louise we’ll have to move on we’ve got quite a lot of people with there hands up now young amn
Audience boy 3: your saying that your afraid that people cant see their face is thatis that your point
Connor: im im(1) right the thing is you know expression you know you’ll be able to see my expression you’ll be able to see im angry im sad everything but with a burka on you wouldn’t be able to tell whether I was enthused whether I was talking you know
Girl one: | so what| you don’t need to express yourself through facial expressions
Connor: | right then lets have women| wearing the burka then expressing themselves via dance [inaudible]
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: | right one person at a time please!| you wanna come back on that one
Audience boy 3: so you trying to say we need to see facial expression so then should we ban beard and long hair?
Connor: | yeah yeah| the thing is you can see them smile cant you
Audience: laughter
Saqib: right hand in the middle please(2) sorry can we stop the mini conversations going on please
Audience girl 3: the people wearing burkas at the moment maybe for protection maybe for another reason but are you willing to make those people feel so uncomfortable so vunerable in our society
Connor: I think there are instances of people who are vunerable with the burka on I mean one of the main problems is there are some young muslim british girls who in their youth have been made to wear burkas imposed by religion I was imposed to go to church when I was young this is a similar instance and these young british muslim girls have suffered abuse ah ah ah at home cuts bruises everywhere and there teachers couldn’t even no this was going taking place because they have black cloth concealing their bodies they were being abused and they were being hurt and no-one knew about it
Jack: | I also|
I also think aswell that people who do wear the burka(1) whos to say they don’t feel vunerable perhaps that’s the reason that they wear it because it is out of choice it isn’t you know it isn’t a part of the qu’ran(1) it’s choice
Saqib: right we’re coming onto something important can you just keep your hand up for a second can we have a response to a symbol of oppression?
Louise: you said its oppressive it’s a symbol of oppression but isn’t it oppressive to tell women what they can and can’t wear?
Jack: | its not about | they can’t wear its about what they cover their face with that’s not clothes that’s not clothing!
Louise: |it is!|
Jack: |not in | western society!
Louise: | what do you mean not| in western society?
Adele: |ehhhh|
Jack: | they walk round with cloth| on their face that’s not clothes
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Adele: |[inaudible]|
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: |RIGHT one at a time one at a time please!|
Louise: your just causing greater a division within society
Jack: | I think| there pretty good at causing divisions already
Louise: | No no!| your trying to cause a big divide I mean how are you going to police women wearing the burka oh its an on the spot fine
Jack: yeah
Adele: [inaudible]
Louise: I I don’t understand how you’ve got the nerve or ordacity to sit there and dictate what women can and can’t wear when it’s a sign of there religion its free choice
Jack: | I think|
Audience: [clapping and cheers]
Saqib: right a question from the front
Audience boy 4: you say its not clothing but I don’t think you know when you see little chavvy girls going into pier in their hot pants you know up the bum I feel that that’s clothing either so if your going to ban the burka you need to ban hot pants and little slaggy girls who are wearing nothing but covering the nipples
Audience: [laughter and chatter]
Saqib: im not sure about your your terminology there
Audience: [laughter]
Connor: when a girl is wearing barely nothing you can still see their facial expression
Audience: [laughter]
Audience boy 4: so would you rather see someone and know shes a slag or like
Saqib: | Emerit!|
Audience: [laughter]
Audience boy 4: or be able to like know someone’s at least respecting themselves even if other people are being all like tarted up they can still show how they feel through there eyes or like how they speak(1) you can see someones happy through there eyes if they smile or something but
Saqib: okay that’s a fair point thanks Emerit for a really good point er keep your hands up please will yer and I’ll get to you as soon as I can(1) President whittaker?
Audience: [one person claps and audience laughs]
Sam: er don’t you agree that abuse er related to the burka and wearing the burka are two different issues
Jack: er yes but we’re saying they interlap were saying that there is abuse and burkas can continue abuse
Sam: don’t you think that alcohol abuse would mean we should put a ban on alcohol then
Connor: | there are steps being taking to | stop alcohol abuse this would be a step to prevent abuse of the burka!
Sam: I think your abusing !civil rights
Saqib: okaay thanks for you comment there can we have a quick point there?
Audience girl 4: urm you were talking about how children can be abused in their homes and cover it with the burka can I point out for a start the burka only covers the face for starters it doesn’t actually cover the whole body(1) and a lot of teachers now actually have training to spot people who are being abused especially young children and if a young child
Connor: |they communicate through facial expression right|
Audience girl 4: yeah but you can still communicate through eyes kids can still talk to each other actually more teachers need to spot(1) children being abused when they speak to other children in the playground its not difficult to listen to other children
Saqib: okay okay that’s a good point
Girl one: | can I just say| if if your saying that these women are being oppressed and forced into wearing the burka by
Connor: | there not being forced|
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Girl one: by husbands and their dads or whatever what do yer think will happen if you ban the burka there gonna be imprisoned in their own homes there not gonna be allowed to go out if their weak enough to be forced to wear the burka by their fathers or whatever
Jack: |exactly they should be| able to leave there houses and they should be able be comfortable
Girl one: | there not going to be if you ban it|
Jack: | banning it them is the only way|
Adele: | are you gonna go round checking all there houses|
Girl one: | [inaudible]|
Saqib: okay okay thanks adele thanks jack common we’ve got a point here or question sorry
Audience girl 5: its just the the point about how(1) like one of your main points is that well children can be abused and its covered up by cloth children can be abused who just wear western dress and you don’t spot it the way to spot abuse is by talking to children and you can still talk to a child and form a relationship with a child regardless of what they wear
Connor: |okay hypothetically hypothetically|
Audience girl 5: |no NO! as person who works with young people my focus on a child isn’t on what your wearing oh your covered in cloth so I’m not going to talk to you
Connor: | okay so| can I ask you a question right you working with a quiet girl whos wearing a burka shes quiet she doesn’t want to talk about her problems shes got a massive cut down the side of her face which you cant see but she isn’t talking about her problem what do you do then?
Audience girl 5: orite with all due respect with somebody who forms a relationship with children and young people in that environment you build up trust you have to have trust
Connor: |yeah but there are still quiet people|
Audience girl 5: no! how are you going to have trust between a youth worker and the people if when they come in you go no sorry you can’t come in because your expressing yourself through your clothes get out(1) its ridiculous
Audience: [clapping]
Connor: I don’t think a quiet girl who been abused wearing the burka she wont be able to fully demonstrate her problem
Audience girl 5: |there are there are| quiet girls who are abused sexually and I cant see that but you still talk to them it the same like people who are abused commonly the places they are abused they do it in places which are cover up by normal clothes so I think that point is just completely invalid
Jack: well not really how many people just come straight up the day after and say my dad raped me how many people?
Audience girl 5: | sorry how is that how is that connected|
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: |[inaudible]|
Audience girl 5: | I think you missing the point|
Saqib: | hey okay guys okay I think we’re digressing again!| can we try and keep to the burka a question put your hand up please
Audience girl 6: I don’t understand the point about little kids wearing the burka works because you don’t veil till adolesance anyway(4)
Jack: this isn’t the main point the the
Audience: [laughter]
Jack: no its not its something that we’ve discussed it doesn’t mean that it is our main point our main point I have to say is the security risk and we’ve told you about the prisoners that have escaped the terrorist that have escaped
Girl one: | their weren’t any women|
Jack: | Yassi omar|
Adele: | that’s a man|
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: okay okay
Louise: |how many| muslims [inaudible]
Connor: | [inaudible] she wanted to blow up her and her [inaudible]|
Louise: |HOW many muslims [inaudible]|
Adele: |she could have put it | somewhere more exciting
Audience: [laughter]
Saqib: Cummon eyy
Adele: | she didn’t need a burka|
Louise: |[inaudible]|
Saqib: | okay| thankyou question please from
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)